tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post1354101888827473209..comments2024-03-29T09:18:22.495+11:00Comments on Australian Health Information Technology: It Looks Like Desperation and Heavy Tactics Are Now Taking Over the PCEHR Program. Not Good!Dr David G More MB PhDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-48638407388411945612011-07-24T14:18:52.180+10:002011-07-24T14:18:52.180+10:00I don't think $467M with a short time frame is...I don't think $467M with a short time frame is a sensible way to do innovation. The government could encourage innovation on the PCEHR program for a few million.<br /><br />To innovate and force through standards as a concurrent exersize is a crazy strategy as the two things are fighting against each other. To do it with 9 sites at the same time is lunacy.<br /><br />It comes down to sensibleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-31350736922509956372011-07-22T22:25:34.412+10:002011-07-22T22:25:34.412+10:00Perhaps while the King has no clothes on, and the ...Perhaps while the King has no clothes on, and the Minister is declaring that there shall be a PCEHR by 1 July 2012, others will be getting on with developing PCEHR specifications that are based on Australian and/or international standards whereever they are available (even in draft) and suitable for the purpose. And where they are not available, then the new specifications may themselves becomeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-8128351701812581452011-07-22T11:25:58.399+10:002011-07-22T11:25:58.399+10:00Question:
"So when the minister says that th...Question:<br /><br />"So when the minister says that there shall be a pcEHR by 1 July 2012, and it shall be based on standards, what do you propose to say?"<br /><br />Answer:<br /><br />"The King is wearing no clothes."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-74422014399987721292011-07-22T11:18:35.436+10:002011-07-22T11:18:35.436+10:00I don't think the logic flags are off at all, ...I don't think the logic flags are off at all, Standards should be based on something that is already working. Other vendors do their job by ensuring it does not advantage anyone to much, but are keener to implement when they see that it actually works.<br /><br />HL7 V2 extensions are often developed by someone and brought to the committee as a solution to a known problem. Its a matter of Andrew McIntyrehttp://www.medical-objects.com.aunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-83612661393632953292011-07-22T10:36:43.868+10:002011-07-22T10:36:43.868+10:00Something similar along those lines such as:
&quo...Something similar along those lines such as:<br /><br />"Draft standard for trial or controlled use"<br /><br />Trial is too restrictive IMO. With necessary controls you can use things in a controlled way. Would require some guidance etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-15179824634600902292011-07-22T10:08:08.511+10:002011-07-22T10:08:08.511+10:00I have always liked the approach of using the conc...I have always liked the approach of using the concept of a "Draft Standard for Trial Use" for a known period than then a move to a real Standard.<br /><br />What do others think?<br /><br />David.Dr David G More MB PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-18865580597947691372011-07-22T10:05:28.356+10:002011-07-22T10:05:28.356+10:00As I read this merry go round I see the same old b...As I read this merry go round I see the same old bomb throwers at it again...<br /><br />"you must use standards"<br /><br />but!!!<br /><br />"you must implement to before making it a standard"<br /><br />but then when you try and implement anything if it's not already a standard then you can do it.<br /><br />For engineers I think you all turn off your logic flags when Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-58328072802195319052011-07-22T09:50:06.639+10:002011-07-22T09:50:06.639+10:00#Graham
I think that sometimes you have to say th...#Graham<br /><br />I think that sometimes you have to say that "this is a bad idea", even if its not what people want to hear. The minister needs advisors that do not stand behind her and automatically nod their head. Advice does not have to be positive.Andrew McIntyrehttp://www.medical-objects.com.aunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-15021227084280410202011-07-22T09:30:08.205+10:002011-07-22T09:30:08.205+10:00#Andrew
"I think its vital to allow scrutiny...#Andrew<br /><br />"I think its vital to allow scrutiny of proposed standards by the community and its wrong to fast track new standards, especially when they have not been implemented."<br /><br />So when the minister says that there shall be a pcEHR by 1 July 2012, and it shall be based on standards, what do you propose to say? Don't use standards?Grahame Grievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635283945076545993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-18350320264217844492011-07-22T09:06:02.474+10:002011-07-22T09:06:02.474+10:00"We don't need new standards to fix the p..."We don't need new standards to fix the problems, we need an expectation of compliance with the current ones as the first step."<br /><br />But if that were true, then there would be no rational for NEHTA as it currently stands would there? In a parallel universe, NEHTA would have in its first 2 years selected the tranche of existing standards we could be getting on with, got Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-51827838643659949392011-07-22T07:45:13.209+10:002011-07-22T07:45:13.209+10:00I think its vital to allow scrutiny of proposed st...I think its vital to allow scrutiny of proposed standards by the community and its wrong to fast track new standards, especially when they have not been implemented. OMG has pushed the need for implementations before something even becomes a standard.<br /><br />The issue in Australia has been a lack of participation in the standards process by implementers. The reason for this is that we have Andrew McIntyrehttp://www.medical-objects.com.aunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-87513337089723787152011-07-22T07:34:02.836+10:002011-07-22T07:34:02.836+10:00Good standards come from implementation experience...Good standards come from implementation experience and not the white board of the ivory towers that have been created. What seems like a good idea can flop badly in practice, while what seems clunky at first viewing can work well in practice. At least organisations like Google are brave enough to trash ideas that have not worked. Google health is one of those ideas.<br /><br />It is true that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-11942785502938370352011-07-21T21:56:13.858+10:002011-07-21T21:56:13.858+10:00Protections for anonymous speech are vital to demo...Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical, minority views . . . Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-46298841555653342882011-07-21T20:13:15.407+10:002011-07-21T20:13:15.407+10:00Hi Grahame,
I believe what I have written is pret...Hi Grahame,<br /><br />I believe what I have written is pretty close to the mark based on conversations with a number of people who are on various IT-14 committees.<br /><br />I have been careful to say 'apparently' and so on and if there is conclusive evidence I have got it wrong..like the SA/DoHA contract being suddenly signed then I am happy to post that information.<br /><br />Right Dr David G More MB PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-14286718904453655752011-07-21T18:45:12.259+10:002011-07-21T18:45:12.259+10:00Easy. Standards Australia is paid to manage and co...Easy. Standards Australia is paid to manage and co-ordinate and provide support etc.<br /><br />Volunteers have expenses etc reimbursed. It happens with all the huge number of SA working groups.<br /><br />DoHA assists a little more with e-Health to make the material free - most Standards you have to buy.<br /><br />World experience suggests paying experts is not as good as you might think in Dr David G More MB PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-27860880048952806512011-07-21T18:37:44.563+10:002011-07-21T18:37:44.563+10:00You said:
1. “The feeling seems to be that the tr...You said:<br /><br />1. “The feeling seems to be that the traditional methods of volunteers working to develop Standards is simply too slow and inefficient and that NEHTA needs to take over the process and drive it forward more rapidly and in a more focussed way.”<br /><br />2. … “the current agreement between DoHA and Standards Australia for funding of the work will not be renewed …”<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-92210996773461047792011-07-21T18:18:36.650+10:002011-07-21T18:18:36.650+10:00You claim:
"Apparently at issue now is that ...You claim:<br /><br />"Apparently at issue now is that if Standards Australia does not agree to much more NEHTA control of the Standards development process that the current agreement between DoHA and Standards Australia for funding of the work will not be renewed - with some threat to the jobs of the staff who are presently doing this work"<br /><br />This is a grave claim. While it&#Grahame Grievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635283945076545993noreply@blogger.com