tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post5125745035045999689..comments2024-03-29T09:18:22.495+11:00Comments on Australian Health Information Technology: The Opt-Out Trials May Be Much Trickier That Is Presently Believed. There Are Many Challenges I Suspect.Dr David G More MB PhDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-15909111735518869392015-06-22T10:01:52.845+10:002015-06-22T10:01:52.845+10:00An even better alternative to walking out was the ...An even better alternative to walking out was the decision by some experts who were not prepared to compromise on their standards, ethics, integrity and professionalism, who would not prepared to join NEHTA because, after extensive investigation, it was apparent that they would no be able to help NEHTA due to the megalomaniacal sycophantic behaviour that was being exhibited by those in charge. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-13033076290629424092015-06-21T18:59:43.815+10:002015-06-21T18:59:43.815+10:00It totally depends on your views on accountability...It totally depends on your views on accountability and ethics. Everyone is different. I hope I would have walked out - but how can you ever know? Everyone to their own lights.<br /><br />David Dr David G More MB PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-52853300603320339802015-06-21T18:22:31.752+10:002015-06-21T18:22:31.752+10:00How can unrealistic timelines not lead to compromi...How can unrealistic timelines not lead to compromises in the work? Other than everyone quitting, what do you think will happen?Grahame Grievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635283945076545993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-85376190418575819442015-06-21T16:43:37.654+10:002015-06-21T16:43:37.654+10:00"But you should all assume that program timel..."But you should all assume that program timelines trumped any quality processes that any managers or architects wished for"<br /><br />Grahame,<br /><br />Hardly an excuse for the work that was not up to scratch and not properly reviewed.<br /><br />The program timelines were nonsense as all involved and the serious watchers knew. Ms Roxon has a huge amount to answer for IMVHO. Another Dr David G More MB PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-33443344737645253472015-06-21T15:08:21.465+10:002015-06-21T15:08:21.465+10:00I believe there was a single lead author, yes. Of ...I believe there was a single lead author, yes. Of course there was a much wider design and review team. FHIR works similarly, though there are many authors now. But you should all assume that program timelines trumped any quality processes that any managers or architects wished for.Grahame Grievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635283945076545993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-33358079153361377242015-06-21T10:32:43.695+10:002015-06-21T10:32:43.695+10:00..... and the architect and author was .............. and the architect and author was .........Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-43808824341421906732015-06-21T00:57:29.744+10:002015-06-21T00:57:29.744+10:00Let me get this straight. Grahame, are you saying ...Let me get this straight. Grahame, are you saying that there was only a *single* author of the NEHTA interoperabilty framework? If so, that's just head-shakingly wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-90425787128612593162015-06-20T23:31:51.798+10:002015-06-20T23:31:51.798+10:00Looking at this set of documents:
1. Interoperabi...Looking at this set of documents:<br /><br />1. Interoperability Framework Version 2.0 — 17 August 2007<br />2. Concept of Operations: September 2011 Release<br />3, High-Level System Architecture PCEHR System Version 1.35 — 11 November 2011<br />4. eHealth Interoperability Framework Version 1.1 30 April 2012<br /><br /><br />They are not compatible or consistent.<br />A Concept of Operations is Anonymoushttp://www.problemsfirst.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-42388282130373896702015-06-20T17:03:31.208+10:002015-06-20T17:03:31.208+10:00Bernard, I believe those terms are taken from the ...Bernard, I believe those terms are taken from the NEHTA Interoperability Framework (https://www.nehta.gov.au/implementation-resources/ehealth-foundations/interoperability-framework). I'll see if the author wants to (and can) contribute hereGrahame Grievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635283945076545993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-38287795324617497512015-06-20T16:45:56.007+10:002015-06-20T16:45:56.007+10:00What is even more curious in that document map is ...What is even more curious in that document map is that at the top it has a series of headings that belong to a Zachman style approach and down the left are the words Conceptual, Logical, Implementable, which belong to a Structured Analysis approach, although Physical is more often used than Implementable.<br /><br />IMHO, not the work of an experienced architect. And I would have thought that a Bernard Robertson-Dunnhttp://www.problemsfirst.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-33729145936036104042015-06-20T09:03:11.716+10:002015-06-20T09:03:11.716+10:00Was said at the time - A concept of operations doc...Was said at the time - A concept of operations document was a curious choice and said much about what the architects/software developers at NEHTA thought the problem was.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-23978838594659634652015-06-19T12:12:05.939+10:002015-06-19T12:12:05.939+10:00If you look at the document map in the PCEHR High ...If you look at the document map in the PCEHR High Level System Architecture document, available on the NEHTA website, you can see that the Concept of Operations is the primary source document for the system and feeds into everything else, including Business Requirements.<br /><br />It also feeds into a High Level Design which in turn feeds into the PCEHR High Level System Architecture.<br /><br /Bernard Robertson-Dunnhttp://www.problemsfirst.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-1501206543924963942015-06-18T22:51:27.049+10:002015-06-18T22:51:27.049+10:00The developers did ask the doctors what they neede...The developers did ask the doctors what they needed. They got lots of answers, and then they picked some."<br /><br />I beg to differ. Key feedback on the original Concept of Operations by doctors and clinical peak bodies voiced their concern about incomplete records with 'blocked' documents. Also they advised that inclusion of PBS and MBS claims data was not only useless, but not Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-28541088723879223342015-06-18T14:31:25.098+10:002015-06-18T14:31:25.098+10:00Re what doctors and others want....
There is a hu...Re what doctors and others want....<br /><br />There is a huge difference between automating what currently happens, incrementally addressing existing problems/issues and completely changing the way the whole system works.<br /><br />I contend that if you expect people who are expert in what they currently do to tell you a much better way of doing something (that might in fact make what they do Bernard Robertson-Dunnhttp://www.problemsfirst.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-41895538571399815532015-06-18T14:21:42.089+10:002015-06-18T14:21:42.089+10:00Grahame,
We didn't have time to go into what h...Grahame,<br />We didn't have time to go into what he thought would be useful.Bernard Robertson-Dunnhttp://www.problemsfirst.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-47050004819193440962015-06-18T01:01:31.353+10:002015-06-18T01:01:31.353+10:00If they 'did ask' doctors for their needs,...If they 'did ask' doctors for their needs, and then 'picked some' I guess they used a dart board to make the choice? <br /><br />Unless they had deep experience in clinical informatics, then one answer from a clinician might very well seem as important as another. Sifting through user needs to come up with compellingly useful design is a different skill set to being an expert in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-52291935322116598862015-06-17T21:36:54.723+10:002015-06-17T21:36:54.723+10:00The developers did ask the doctors what they neede...The developers did ask the doctors what they needed. They got lots of answers, and then they picked some. What did your doctor think would be useful?Grahame Grievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635283945076545993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-14869504496695242432015-06-17T12:54:21.735+10:002015-06-17T12:54:21.735+10:00I went to my doctor's today. I asked him if he...I went to my doctor's today. I asked him if he uses the PCEHR. He said - no, it's useless.<br /><br />He said the problem is that "they, the developers" never asked the doctors what was needed.<br /><br />No amount of training of doctors will get them to use the PCEHR if it doesn't do what is needed.<br /><br />And no amount of "usability" will help, because "Bernard Robertson-Dunnhttp://www.problemsfirst.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-6242870714952213362015-06-17T09:01:34.503+10:002015-06-17T09:01:34.503+10:00They are lost in the enormity of what they think t...They are lost in the enormity of what they think they can achieve - small thinkers like June 17, 2015 8:38 AM have no place in their world. In my experience many of the 'small' thinkers are wise, experienced, smart and competent and they DO get it. The problem here is the bureaucrats see them as a threat and always have - how dare these small thinkers - 'experts' - try to tell us Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-79317389122530612652015-06-17T08:38:40.917+10:002015-06-17T08:38:40.917+10:00Might this, might that ...... I have consistently...Might this, might that ...... I have consistently promoted a different approach for a fraction of the cost, which would have wide support by vendors and consumers, which would result in early, widespread deployment of some critical eHealth solution(s)which once embedded into the daily business processes of service providers will not easily be displaced, and I have made this known to some Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-32404941837013715082015-06-16T22:12:26.949+10:002015-06-16T22:12:26.949+10:00Instead of geographical trials, perhaps a better a...Instead of geographical trials, perhaps a better approach might be to take a different slice of the pie? For example, focussing on health summaries and medications data for older clients in aged care homes might demonstrate some real benefits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-65477261226172121222015-06-16T20:02:07.618+10:002015-06-16T20:02:07.618+10:00Hello David - you have misinterpreted what I said ...Hello David - you have misinterpreted what I said - let me be a little clearer. <br /><br />I often wonder if any good might come from preparing a well worded position statement, signed by 50 of more experienced eHealth software developers and practitioners, and then sending it to the Honorable Members mentioned above urging them to terminate this insane PCEHR profligacy. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-78373100866773606312015-06-16T17:43:09.492+10:002015-06-16T17:43:09.492+10:00Why would these guys listen to any "experienc...Why would these guys listen to any "experienced eHealth software developers and practitioners"? They seem to be deaf to any sort of expert advice, from the UN, the IMF & ICCC downwards.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-36954538408638067002015-06-16T16:55:16.217+10:002015-06-16T16:55:16.217+10:00Hello Anon,
Is there a link to this 'well wor...Hello Anon,<br /><br />Is there a link to this 'well worded position statement' <br /><br />We would all love to read it!<br /><br />David.Dr David G More MB PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902724829795199526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23447705.post-35257760292335074642015-06-16T16:49:06.762+10:002015-06-16T16:49:06.762+10:00I often wonder whether the Prime Minister, The Tre...I often wonder whether the Prime Minister, The Treasurer, The Health Minister and the Minister for Human Services, would take heed of a well worded position statement signed by 50 or more experienced eHealth software developers and practitioners urging them to terminate this insane PCEHR profligacy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com